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What is the minimum yards you want to have on your spool? 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Art Weston
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 238
Location: United States
100 yards is plenty, but what is the minimum? I was thinking 75 yards is the low end to be comfortable.

I can cast a 1/2 oz jig about 50-55 yards (more if I try) on 80lb, but can cast even further with a spook.

I am trying to determine if I should put on some "emergency" thin braid backing on a 75 yard spool of 80lb braid to get it to 100 total yards ... in case a get hit at the end of my cast.

Thanks!

-Art
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Dan Hanon
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I don't have the huevos to only use 75 yards. For me, 100 is my minimum comfort level, but I prefer 110-120. I will have to catch many more grandes before I will be comfortable at the lower capacities. Right now, I can't afford to lose any big fish! :-D
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:25 pm Reply with quote
Dan Hanon
Guest
BTW, you shouldn't be using 80# braid with either jigs or spooks. Try using 50# on your baitcaster with them and you'll be able to cast farther, work the baits better and get more line on your spool!
Reel Line Capacity 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:38 am Reply with quote
Larry Larsen
Executive Director
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 608
Location: Lakeland, FL
We have had some discussions on this in the past (Use the search button to find those posts). I generally use 65# test braid on rod/reel outfits (with reel capacity of around 100-105 yards of 65# test) when employing submergent baits, such as jigs and jerkbaits (and yes Dan... small topwater "dog-walking" plugs). I always go to 80 pound test braid for all large topwater plugs and the reels usually have a line capacity of 75 to 80 yards of that size braid, which I find very adequate.

My focus is only on teeners (13#s and above) and can say that in some 70 trips, I have yet to be spooled. That's not to say that my luck won't run out on my next trip, but so far I've been lucky about that and I feel very comfortable with that amount of line. The only times (maybe 3 or 4) that I've even come close to seeing the spool was when I had 20-pound plus peacocks that were hooked while trolling far back behind the boat. Since I cast for the monsters 98% of the time and I'm not a long caster (on purpose), I just believe that my line capacities are fine for me.

Bottom line: Use what you are comfortable with.

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Larry Larsen
Executive Director
Peacock Bass Association
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www.larsenoutdoors.com
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Dan Hanon
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Larry,

I've been on ONE peacock trip and caught 2-3 teeners, so I AM THE PEACOCK EXPERT, ha, ha. Laughing

I can't tell you how much informaton I've learned on this forum, and others, about peacock bass fishing. Before my first trip in 2010, I read every archived post, many several times. Before the internet age, it was impossible to acquire so much information in such a short time. I only wish more people would post here so we could have more interaction.

Dan
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:28 pm Reply with quote
GUEST
Guest
I find it difficult to get any long casting distance using 80# braid with a 1/2 oz jig and therefore plan on throwing only 3/4 oz jigs (red/white with a teaser hook)) this next trip the end of November with 50#-60# braid. As for line capacity on reels, I use larger spool capacity reels for topwater (longer casts) and smaller capacity reels for jigs (shorter casts). My hooks are all 7 strength. If I get spooled, it's back to the boat for Caparinahs!
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:22 am Reply with quote
Rick Klotz
Guest
Mark:

You should consider using a spinning outfit for the jigs. That way you can use 30-40 lb braid and 1/2 oz jigs. You'll have better luck working the jig through the water column and it's a nice change-up for your muscles after throwing big top waters on a casting outfit for hours on end. As long as the drag was set correctly, I've had no break offs on a rig like this unless they got me into the timber, but that's no different than if I was using 80 lb braid. All bets are off once that happens.
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:49 am Reply with quote
Larry Larsen
Executive Director
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 608
Location: Lakeland, FL
Dan,

I still learn something everytime I go to the Amazon. For example, on my last trip to the Rio Negro, a guy whose first ititial was "M" won the "Dancing Under the Stars" contest held the last night on a jungle sandbar. You have to have 3 caparinahs to master the moves, according to the winner who managed to maneuver through the torches without getting lit! Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Larry Larsen
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Peacock Bass Association
www.peacockbassassociation
www.larsenoutdoors.com
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:43 am Reply with quote
GUEST
Guest
Larry - I have been practicing my "sand bar" routine all Summer and have some new moves to again win the "Dancing Under the Stars" contest (easy to do when there is only a single inebriated entry). Hopefully the cook I was dancing with has slimmed down a little? Also, three is my caparinah limit.

Rick - I agree spinning outfits are the way to go with lighter lures/line and I always use spinning gear with light line (4#-6#) on my Canade trips for walleye an brook trout. My first trip to Brazil had a guy who could not use a baitcaster and used the lodges "deep sea" spinning outfit and caught the biggest fish out of 30 people, a 22#er throwing a 2" rapala (beginner's luck?). Since I only have casting three piece rods that I take with me, I'll just go down to 50# line and really have no concerns about a break off. No concerns at all about spooling out either. I also will stay with the
3/4 oz jigs as a guy with the group last year had some he made and caught the most fish out of the group for the week. I also like a little more weight for not only extra casting distance but also gives me a little better feel, especially with the heavy braided line and stout rod. Lastly, I swear by Reel Magic for both mono and braided line. I spray (saturate) it on after I spool up and spray more on 2-3 more times right before my trip. It makes the line slicker and comes off the rod guides much easier. And, I did not have a single "birdnest" the entire trip last year.
Jigs and bait casters ... 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:55 am Reply with quote
Art Weston
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 238
Location: United States
I still am not understanding a few things about the use of spinning gear vs. baitcaster with jigs ... just not adding up for me given my experience.

I can cast materially farther with my baitcaster than spinning gear ... in fact I can cast a 1/2 oz jig farther than a woodchopper using the Shimano Scorpion DC7 and one of Dink's 7" 3-piece rods ... my average is about a 55-60 yard full cast on the jig ... that is FAR (I'd love to see someone cast that far with spinning gear) ... and that is using up to 80lb braid without much loss of distance vs. 40lb or 50lb. Using a nice spinning set-up (also a custom Dink spinning rod and Shimano Stradic CI4 3000), I can't even come close to the distance even with 40lb braid. The only thing left is if you can "work" the jig better with spinning gear.

Most use a baitcaster with the handle on the right side (standard), but use a spinning reel with the handle on the left side (standard). I also use a spinner with the handle on the left side ... and can work the jig with the customary right wrist snapping with each handle rotation. However, I am one of those that feels it unnatural to then switch hands to use a baitcaster and reel with your right hand. I can see how working a jig would be awkward b/c you have do do everything backwards. I simply correct for this by buying "lefty" baitcasters and can work the jig by cupping the reel with my right hand and making the exact same reel and wrist snap motions as with the spinning gear. So with this casting set-up you can:

- cast farther ... a LOT farther
- use stronger braid ... up to 80lb if you like
- have a better casting pattern (less arching to make your jig go into tight spots)
- I use less energy and find it more comfortable to cup the reel and even rest the butt of the rod against my side when I retrieve the jig that I do with spinning gear. With the spinning gear, I have some hand discomfort when gripping the reel base between my two fingers for extended casting sessions. It doesn't happen to me that often but I have seen fellow anglers have the bail close during the act of casting ... that is no fun. Lastly, when you try to cast far with spinning gear, it can do a number on your finger unless you have a full glove on (finger-less options wont protect you).

So what I am missing ... the only thing I can think of is that using thicker braid doesn't allow your jig to move or sink properly ... but you can still use a baitcaster with lighter line. But I have not been able to observe that in person (I have looked at the retrieves with different line weights and have not noticed a material difference).

If 80lbs is a must for woodchoppers why risk going so much weaker with spinning gear?

-Art
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Dan Hanon
Guest
Art,

You are missing the plot, as they say. Every type of gear has it's advantages in certain circumstances. You probably haven't used spinning gear for 35 years like I have, so you don't have the same level of comfort or facility of use. If I'm wrong, please let me know. There are many things I can do with spinning gear that I can't with baitcasting, and vice versa. I'm talking about fishing in general, not just jungle peacock fishing. I fish everything from bluegill and crappie to catfish. If I need to pitch a 1/8 ounce bait under tree limbs 10 feet in front of me, I can do that with great finesse and skill using a spinning reel. Personally, I can't do that with a baitcaster. I can cast a spinning reel sideways, backhand, overhand and pitch it underhand. It's strength lies in it's ability to cast light lures on light lines; they are very versatile!

In peacock fishing, and fishing in general, strong lines and long casts aren't everything! You don't need to make a 55-60 yard cast all the time for peacock fishing! If I did that, my lure would be in the trees every time, and I landed plenty up by the monkeys! Also, 80 pound test braid isn't the best line to use all the time with all lures. The reason 80 pound is used so much with topwater prop baits is because you need a strong, stiff line to rip these baits through the water without putting undue stress on your knot, rod and you! When you cast a 3 ounce Riproller, 60 yards in your case, you are placing tremendous stress on your line, knot and rod! The heavy line helps mitigate these stresses. You don't want to use heavy lines with smaller lures like jerkbaits, spooks or jigs because the heavier line impedes lure action and it might prevent your lure from sinking or diving to the desired depth. You can catch grande peacocks no problem on 30# braid, you just have to keep them out of cover, play them properly, have your drag set proper and let them do their thing. In the end, you need to use what you are comfortable with. I think if you get more experience fishing for these peacocks, you will start to understand these things. Now, go catch some grandes!
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:37 pm Reply with quote
GUEST
Guest
Agree with Dan and not sure anyone wants to cast a jig 60 yards, especially in this cover, unless you bring 100 or more jigs and don't mind re-tying every cast? One item not mentioned is lighter line would be a great option when fishing off the main river near sandbars with little or no trees around.
There are just a lot of mixed messages ... 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Art Weston
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 238
Location: United States
I don't think my guides will put me in the situations to have to cast 60 yards with a jig (or other lures for that matter), but if I wanted to I can (like at a disturbance in the water, etc.). I brought up that point b/c most sites state that using spinning gear for jigs is beneficial so you can cast farther than the baitcaster and that you can "work the jig" better ... but that "work" is rarely described. That is why I am asking the experts.

Until recently I was a "spinning" guy, from growing up bass fishing to large game (Marlin, Tuna, Tarpon, etc.) using the latest high power dual drag systems that rivaled conventional set-ups ... funny thing is I frustrated the guides on those trips b/c I was more comfortable using my spinning gear (I can't stand the large right handed conventional reels).

As with an earlier post, I think baitcasting technology maybe changing the game a bit ... it did for me. For peacocks, I credit it to having the right rod for the caster (7"), and a left handed digitally controlled brake baitcaster (that essentially lets you free spool 95% of your cast ... any type of cast ... short, long, etc.). I imagine if others had the same equipment they might see things differently (I can toss that jig almost anywhere). I would not want to cast jigs with a standard baitcaster (I have a Quantum PT Smoke, a Curado, and AG Revo Toros), b/c I would opt for the spinning gear as well ... they just don't do well with heavier line and a light jig ... and as I stated above, why do people reel with their right hand on a baitcaster, but the left hand for spinning ... boggles my mind.

On top of that, most sites state how important heavy line is ... we generally need more absolute breaking strength right (as long as it does not impact working the lure)? Stronger line will handle the loss of knot strength with braid directly tied to lures (at least -40%), peacocks taking you into cover and putting near 100% drag pressure on your hooks and line ... and some 50lb-80lb lines still snap. I just don't see how people are comfortable using 50lb-80lb on everything but a jig unless you just can't move the jig in the water correctly.

So it seems that it DOES impact working the lure through the water ... at least the heavier line (I'll have to see if I can observe that) ... but I think all that might do is make me opt for lighter line, but I am going to stick with my Scorpion DC7 ... maybe with 40lb (again, I'd still be more comfortable with 60lb but I don't want to lose out on strikes).

I do appreciate the feedback, it does help me both devise and rationalize my approach. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:35 am Reply with quote
Dan Hanon
Guest
Art,

You have really good equipment and your good at using it, so that's all that matters. I think you're right about these new baitcasters, they are changing the game a bit.

When I went to the Amazon, I fished jigs about 95%. The water was low, it was late in the season and I was fishing off the main Negro trunk in lagoons that had seen many lures. I used a Shimano Stradic 4000 with 30# Power Pro the whole time with NOT ONE line breakage. My guide tied a double, braided leader for me resembling a Darby or Bimini Twist- he never did show me how to tie it. I lost a 20# class fish (twice, on consecutive casts, the second fish might have been it's mate) and had my jig hook twisted into a corkscrew! This year I'm using a Shimano Stradic 3000 instead of the 4000 because its a lot lighter and plenty strong. For me, its easier to balance a spinning reel when I'm fatigued because the reel's weight is below the rod. I suppose this is less of an issue nowadays with these incredibly light baitcasting reels. I think after hundreds of casts, though, it makes a difference for me.
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:38 am Reply with quote
Rick Klotz
Guest
Dan:

You may want to take a look at the new alloy spinning reels that are coming out. So much lighter than equivalent non-alloy models. I just purchased the Pflueger Supreme XT magnesium model and the weight difference is quite noticable from my older, aluminum model Supreme (which is still alive and kickin'). It's also very fast at 35" per turn with tremendous line capacity (Art take note).
What is the minimum yards you want to have on your spool? 
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