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Braid knots fail at 60% of the line strength!? who knew? 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:11 pm Reply with quote
Art Weston
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 238
Location: United States
I feel like each day I go further down the fishing rabbit hole ...

Apparently, tying braid directly to lures will cause a line break at 60% of the absolute breaking strength "ABS" of the line (at best). The ABS is based on testing done on the line without a knot. This value is different than the Stated Line Strength that is listed on a spool. Typically the ABS for braid is much higher than the stated line strength, and there are few resources out there to confirm this w/o doing your own testing.

I have been working on some of these facts from both research and direct correspondence with a line and knot testing expert (Paulus) in Australia.

For example to keep things simple, if we assume the ABS of some random 50lb braid (as stated on the spool) is actually 50lbs as well. If we directly tie the braid to a lure, depending on the knot, it will fail at 30lbs of force (50lb *0.60 = 30lbs) at best. If this is true (and apparently it is), that is a big shock to me.

However, if you splice braid with an 80lb ABS (as a leader) to the 50lb ABS braid (as your main line) your splice would only degrade the ABS of the 50lb by 1% or 49.5 lbs. Then if you directly tie the 80lb leader to your lure, that knot would break at 48lbs (80lbs *0.60). Here is the important part ... since the 48lbs is 1/2 pound less than the main line's ABS at 48.5 lbs, the lure knot should fail first. This would be ideal b/c you don't want to have the main line fail before the leader (losing a lure is better than losing a lure and the leader all together).

So in summary, just using 50lb ABS line will fail at 30lbs, but using 50lb with an 80lb leader will fail at 48 lbs (a 60% improvement in ABS) ... huge difference if it can all be worked out. This could also create a lot more line capacity for us if we want the breaking strength of 80lb but have a lot more line capacity using 50lb backing.

The guy Paulus is still very adamant that we should be considering a "shock" leader in the form or mono or fluorocarbon b/c it will significantly reduce hook pulls (due to the stretch) and the knots are considerably stronger when tied to lures. I defended against the use of mono/flouro because of abrasion concerns and piranhas, but could use some help from the forum on that justification.

Here are some of the threads I posted on other sites and other research links:

http://www.hi-lighter.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47

http://www.hi-lighter.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39

http://www.nbssportfishing.com/vBforum/f17/test-your-braided-line-dont-assume-its-strength-11581/
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:52 pm Reply with quote
Dan Hanon
Guest
Art,

That's interesting stuff. Maybe I'm missing something, but your example of the 80-50# splice doesn't take into account the strength of the splicing knot used to join the two strands, or does it? In real life, there are actually two knots to deal with, the one tied to the lure and the one used to splice the two lines together. Maybe your example assummed a 100% splicing knot failure at the same ABS as the 50# braid.

The good news is that we don't buy line based on the ABS, but on the value stated on the spool, so our knot strength can actually be very close to that stated strength. For instance, a Bimini twist knot is very close, if not a 100% strength knot (not 100% of ABS).

You can use a mono shock leader wiith steel. You simply have to connect the steel leader to the desired length of mono, which can then be tied to braid. There are some new stainless steel leaders, such as Tyger wire, that you can tie knots in. You could do some uni-uni connections to connect them all. Personally, I don't care for the Albright special knot.
splicing knot 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:43 pm Reply with quote
Art Weston
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 238
Location: United States
yes, the splicing knot is assumed to be 99% of the main lines ABS in my example. There are a couple of references to splices that can even retain 100% of the main line's ABS.

So are you saying for a shock leader, it would be main line tied to mono tied to a steel leader right? If we added the backing in my example that would make 4 lines types on one reel! Impressive .. I think.

I have used Tyger wire in Key West, and it worked relatively well, but I did have more leader failures that I expected on larger fish. I might assume it has a lower ABS than stated or my knots were bad.

I think there is something here that can be figured out to help the peacock bass fishermen ... just trying to get it all worked out. Thanks Dan for the feedback.

-Art
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:26 pm Reply with quote
Rick Klotz
Guest
If you use good quality line and adjust your drag appropriately you won't break off very often. The first 10-15 seconds is key. You can't horse them on the initial run and if they get to the timber you're sunk no matter what knot or braid strength. Keep it simple and don't over analyze. My two cents anyway....
Braid knots fail at 60% of the line strength!? who knew? 
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