Peacock Bass Fishing Forum - View topic

Rick Grover · Guest

Not much action on this site anymore. Economy got everyone in a funk? From what I have seen looks like the Sept-Nov. trips did ok and after that Mr. Highwater took over and the season went downhill from there. Thinking about going next fall? I am. Tell us what was good or bad about this year. Rick G.

Bob Daly

Hi Rick: Nothing good for me with this season's peacock fishing. My trip to Itapara was postponed till 2010 due to high water Evil or Very Mad

. As of last week Milton said the water was still too high. Rolling Eyes

Best of luck to guys who are still planning on going for peacocks this season.

My next trip is back to La Zona for dorados in April. plus fishing for redfish in Venice, LA next month. 8)

Good fishing, Bob Daly

Larry Larsen · Executive Director

Rick and all,

Not sure what the next two months or so will offer. Water is high now, I'm told. The fall fishing seemed to be very good for several anglers. If you look at the past three years, the fall months have almost always produced better than the winter months. That is different from many years ago, but times are "a changing".

To me, fall may be the most predictable and productive for most peacock bass anglers in the future. It is also the most flexible for those operators than can fish in different regions or areas (that may have better water conditions) and even for individuals that may need to reschedule a few weeks later.

When water starts dropping at the beginning of the season, it can go out fast. And when it is rising, it can come up fast. Flexibility is sometimes key to being in the right place at the right time. Old timers (those fishing the Amazon for many years) may have to adjust their thinking to understand that fall may be the best time to book. In fact, I would suggest that everyone book their fall trips before June, if not earlier.

neal m brown

we fished in early december aboard the captain peacock. the water was rediculously high and rising. the fishing was dreadful. they offered us a 50% discount for next year and then raised the price for next year. go figure. it's now almost $5500 for 2009-2010. crazy. even at half price it's about the same or more than what other fisheries are offering these days. given the constant ups and downs in the fishing conditions over the past few years along with the absurd yearly price increases, and considering that there's plenty of great dorardo fishing in argentina or tarpon fishing in the carribean/belize during the same time for less money-even at half the "normal" peacock price, i'm looking at other options...

Rick Klotz

Well for me it was a financial decision this year. For less than half the cost we decided to go to Lake Huites in Mexico. Is there a reason prices haven't come down at least somewhat with the price of gas falling? I also wasn't pleased to find out that the operators (some at least) charge less for their Brasilian clients than us Yankees.

In any event I will eventually go back. It's still a special place and unbelievably fun fishing.

neal m brown

last year when they raised the prices they said it was because of the increase in gas prices. what's their excuse for the increases and lack of decreases this year? yes, they charge the locals less than half what they charge us.

Don Cutter · Guest

Rick and Gang!
What you say about the way some operators charge Brazilians is partially true, but to get the whole picture you need to consider that they are usually limited on the amount of fuel they can use per day, they are charged extra for beverages, they must pay for rental tackle, and do not get the delux treatment afforded most visiting anglers. They need no translator and their expectations about food are significantly different than most Americans. But then again, not all operators charge different prices - we certainly do not. If the Brazilians come, they pay the same in US Dollars as the Americans.

One of the primary costs of doing the fishing business in Brazil is the amount the Operators have to pay to gain access to remote and/or exclusive rivers. The expectation of the visiting anglers is that they will find a location with little fishing pressure, and those who live along those rivers as well as the Brailian governement have learned that they can get additional revenue by preventing access to rivers if you do not pay. And while the price of gasoline has declined somewhat, it still remains above the levels of 2-3 years ago. For those of us who use float planes, the number of planes available has been reduced while the demand has increased - thus an increase in transportation costs.

I know that there are less expensive trips the angler can make, but there are also more expensive trips - some to Canada and Alaska. Yet, going to the Amazon affords the visitor the opportunity to experience the jungle region in a way not available in any other part of the world. For 6 days, you are surrounded by jungle and wildlife that can be seen no where else. And the bonus is the peacock bass - what an explosive fish with such beauty and strength that no other fresh water fish will compare - and there is a 20# er out there with your name on it.

Larry is right to say that September through November has always been the best time for our operations. It seems that as many years in December as not, we experience the rising water syndrome. Yet even during the years of high water, we had very good fishing in the fall. One other observation about the high water. The last time we had so much high water during a season, the following season was the best fishing that I have experienced in the 20 years that I have been fishing for the Peacock Bass.

If you had an operator that knowingly had you make the trip in a high water condition and with rising water, you might want to consider finding a new operator. We serviced all of our trips up until the Christmas break with good to excellent fishing all weeks. Since the Christmas break, we have postponed all trips until water conditions improve. That is the responsible thing to do.

I would encourage all of you not to give up on this great fishery. Discuss costs with your operator and see if there are less expensive alternatives - i.e., shorter weeks, alternate transportation modes, fishing less exclusive areas, etc. We are all looking for ways to make these trips a great value for our clients, and yet still maintain some level of profitability for our own future and the future of this business. Next season will be here before you know it, and you don't want to miss out!!
Don

neal m brown

not to be offensive don, but i have trouble buying all the accounts of the high cost of operating in the amazon especially when most operators do not pay their guides who rely totally on tips. and those who do get paid recieve the equivalent of $60 per week.
my wife does a luxury guided trip to europe where she stays in 5 star hotels for 2 weeks. the price is less than what we pay and it includes airfare. while i realize that the trips are not equivelant, given the disparity of costs between the amazon and europe, it makes one wonder especially when false excuses lik increases in fuel prices are employed as an excuse. it's pure greed.

Don Cutter · Guest

Neal,
I am not offended at all. I certainly understand your concerns, but the truth is that the cost of doing business in Brazil is very high. The Amazon area is being exploited by the government as a resource for new revenues, and the outfitters and their clients have to pay. What you say about payment of guides and other staff members is partially true. The minimum wage has increased from your figures over the past two years, but tips do provide a major part of their income. For the employyes that we maintain year-round, we pay an extra months salary in December of each year - as a governement requirement plus upon termination of employment, we pay a substantial bonus to the employee based on his salary and his years of service - a kind social security.

The rapid rise in the costs of fuel and the rapid devaluaion of the dollar over the past three years caused most of us to lose money during that time since we could not get prices raised as fast as the costs of doing business. I expect most of us are trying to recover a little of those losses before dropping prices or eliminating price increases. It reminds me a lot of the banks in the US that will raise their prime interest rate within minutes or hours of the time that the Fed's announce an increase, but will take days and/or weeks to drop their rates after the Fed's have announced a decline.

Nothng would suit me better than to be able to hold my rates steady or to reduce them to previous levels, but to do so would require me to lose moey on every client that comes to our camps - and you can't do that and "make it up on volume." However, if you feel that the profits are exhorbitant, I would invite you to join our organization as an investor and share in the profits and/or losses that we encounter each year.

Now, if you want to do a two week tour of the Amazon - with no fishing and no charter flights, we can provide you with that experience for considerably less than the price we charge for our fishing trips. In this business, like anything else, you get what you pay for. I don't mean to offend, but most operators I know are not the greedy persons that you are assuming, most do this job mostly for the pure joy of fishing for peacock bass and for the friendships they gain along the way.
Don

neal m brown

don,
while i can appreciate the extra governmental exploitation costs and the like, how is it that the operators can manage to make a profit on the brazilian anglers who they charged so much less, sometimes less than half of what they charge the american anglers. are the americans in essence subsidizing the brazilians?

moreover, fuel prices are at less than half of what they were last year when prices went way up and yet prices have increased again this year..

i realize that you were being tongue in cheak with the investment offer but with no real labor costs, decrease in fuel costs, an improving dollar, and HUGE price increases, i am curious as to just how much the exploitive governmental revenues are.

Bob Daly

I have used a Brazilian outfitter before for obtaining permits into La Zona. This outfitter also books many of the established peacock bass fisheries.

Often, I get informed of "special" prices for the peacock trips which are a slight discount for certain weeks of the fishing season. These prices are quoted in reals. However when converting into US dollars, the price is very comparable to the price we all are currently paying.

I know that Itapara Lodge which is owned by a Brazilian charges a similar price for Brazilians and Americans. He however has decided to shorten the fishing trip by 1 day in 2010 instead of raising the rates.

I believe as with anything it all is price/demand. If trips start to not fill-up then am sure the prices will drop. My main complaint is the price of the flights. Hopefully these come down with increased competition for flights into Manaus. Rolling Eyes

I have previously posted on this site various prices for fishing lodges around the world. Most all of them raise their prices every year, so it is not just the peacock trips. :cry:

Good fishing, Bob Daly

Rick Klotz

Don:

Thanks so much for your forthright responses on behalf of the operators. Your point about the currency exchange is well taken. I also buy the high cost of doing business in Brasil. I supported that region for several years and had forgotten.

As I always say, the less your know (or remember) about something, the simpler it seems. I've never though that the cost of the trips to Brasil were over priced considering the great service and unique fishing experience. It's just that it's expensive enough to reconsider options when things get a bit tighter.

Bob Daly

Please also take into account that the Amazon operators usually give us the option of rescheduling high water trips. 8) Remember they have more or less lost their "ass" the past few years due to high water. :cry: Food, permits, staff, etc... have already been in place before we are given the opportunity to canel due to "an act of God" with the rains. I feel we are very fortunate to have great outfitters who look out for their clients. I know for sure that many Alaska, Canada, or elsewhere in South America will not give you this option,, just want you money. Evil or Very Mad

Bob Daly

Bob Daly

Cory: Best of luck at Milton's. 8) I have been there 5 times. If you need any questions answered on Itapara feel free to contact me at
doradokiller@hotmail.com Please tell Milton I said hello.
Hope the waters continue to drop 8)
Have a great safe trip. We are hope you post a great report when you return.
Good fishing, Bob Daly

Philip Shimerda · Guest

I read the discussion about cost with great interest, so I hope no one minds if I kick in my two cents. I've fished the Itapera the past two years, and have rescheduled this year's trip from Jan. to March with River Plate. My own opinion is that the cost of these trips is quite reasonable, considering the level of service we receive, and the distance we travel. I've fished northern Ontario since the mid 70's, and been to Alaska, so really do feel like Brazil is a bargain.

Even if I hook up my bass boat and go to lake Amistad, or Choke Canyon (from San Antonio), figuring in the cost of fuel, motels, liscenses, boat, gear, food, and incidentals, I cringe at the REAL cost. It's probably cheaper to hire a guide or go to an exotic destination like Brazil, and then I don't have the hassle of maintainence.

The first year I went to Brazil, I tried to calculate how the operators could make a buck, and I'm still not sure how they do it. Any businessman deserves to make a profit, otherwise there is no point in being in business. My experience with Brazil has been very positive, so while I hope prices don't raise much in the near future, I feel I am getting my money's worth.